Why is the dream dead?

Sometimes Even Console Emulation Can be Deceptive

Why is the dream dead?

Postby Damian on Sat Jun 30, 2001 7:02 am

I know this is off topic, but the real life forum is probably one of the busiest at the moment.

My point is, I would really like to know why the SEGA Dreamcast has been written off. No I am not behind the times, I did not just discover this yesterday but since the day SEGA announced it's departure from this platform and all future own made ones I have never really understood why.

Think about it, the Dreamcast has not done all that badly. True it did have a lot of sale success after they slashed the price down severely, but look at the U64 that has done by comparative standards pretty badly as well and yet it still remains in a niche market.

To me the Dreamcast has been one of the best consoles I have ever owned. It has an astonishingly vast library of quality games (unlike PSX 1 or 2) the technical performance is amazing (I still haven't seen a PS2 game vastly, or even slightly superior), and yet it failed? Why?

Here are two significant quotes I noticed in EDGE today:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Financial Times: The performance of different consoles has become so similar it is difficult to tell whether you are using Playstation2 or Sega's Dreamcast


I know these people are not of game authority but the magazine in question virtually agreed with them.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Ken Kutaragi (Sony): Microsoft has finished before it even got started. They have no games... Microsoft does not understand the entertainment business. The processing speed of their console is not fast enough and graphics were rough


The first quote details to my thinking of the similarities between the DC and PS2. The second quote however is quite laudable. Sony are saying that the X-Box has not enough speed/power to compete even though their machine is not only lower class, but as I can see as far as CURRENT development standards go on par with our dead pal the Dreamcast?

That makes no sense, unless of course it means that the PS2 will somehow be able to remodify it's basic architecture which I deem very unlikely (surely no add-on would give such a boost).

Even more silly, is talk of the "entertainment" industry. No you damn bitches, you just had the right hardware at the right time, I personally believe that if Namco was on holiday at the time, your machine would have died the death it damn well deserved to..especially if Psygnosis had pulled out of the deal as well.

SEGA must have either something up their sleeve, or they were more in debt than they let on (probably the latter) and that is why now a perfect console is dead. It offered so much more than the shitty PS2 (I am never going to have one) or the XBOX (my living room is too small for such a monster). I just hope the GameCube pulls through and sends both Sony and MS to the gutter as they both only deserve to prosper within their own original industries. Curiously enough, does anyone know what overall profit margin Sony were making from their PSX in 1999 set against the rest of their dealings? 50% yes the PSX has been so successful for them that it has nearly doubled their turnover.

If the GameCube does win (I hope it does, but LM looks quite boring) I only prey that SEGA goes on to be one of the leading developers for the system. Who knows maybe if they hit bright blue again they might even consider the hardware industry again.

Another horrific point, it is plain to all that consoles are trying to turn into PCs. Unfortunately the DC made the first step with internet access but now it is becoming horrendous. I was reading an article about E3 today and looking at pictures of a PS2 connected to a keyboard and high resolution monitor on what looked like a database. And then one of Sony's StormTroopers holding aloft a surprisingly large looking hard drive add-on which of course with their recent broadband access drive would make it one OS short of a PC (or maybe MS come in later?). Of course I am not talking about the X-Box for it is not a console trying to be a PC, more the other way around as it's HUGE size attests to.

How depressing, maybe I should freeze myself for two years and then come back when new blood has hit the field?

I have never liked the PSX or it's lame sequel, and as far as I can see the PSPOO has had no "must have" games out yet, if it has someone please enlighten me as usually the panic wrought upon the gaming community by an amazing game even hits the general public at times.

God, I think Sony are shit at 1. making games 2. Publishing games (remember Sony Imagesoft?) 3. AND AT MAKING CONSOLES, THE PSX IS SHIT!!!!!

The only worthwhile game they have made (according to the public) is maybe Jumping Jack Crap and Gran Turismo which I thought was shit as well. The only game I have ever really liked on The PSSUX was CSOTN and I blame Konami for not making that a Saturn exclusive game, tell me a one PSX game that rivals Panzer Dragoon Zwei or Guardian Heros?

Ok, I must finish my ranting now...but be warned, I HATE SONY IN THE GAME BUSINESS!
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Why is the dream dead?

Postby Sabin on Sat Jun 30, 2001 7:08 am

Do i have to point out Chrono Cross for you? That is the ONLY game that has made me even consider getting a PSX. Before that there were no must have titles for it. And nopw with FFIX not coming to the pc (it looks that way at least) i might break down in the next few weeks and actually get a PS1. Right now the PS2 can rot on the shelf as far as i am concerned and with the FFVIII team back for FFX it can stay there for a long while.
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Why is the dream dead?

Postby Damian on Sat Jun 30, 2001 7:34 am

I am not an RPG fan, that is to say I like them but ofen overlook them as I can be easily confused, especially by Circle-Soft.

I still think the PSX sucks.
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Why is the dream dead?

Postby jurucyber on Sun Jul 01, 2001 12:44 am

Persona was a awesome rpg on psx,havent checked out the US sequal yet (the japanese
versions were caled Megami Tensei).

I guess gamers in Japan never realy forgave Sega for their past blunders (the 32x,Mega cd) but no-one forced anyone to buy them,and were only technically peripherals to begin with.SOA had alot to answer for,they were misguided enough to think there was a future
in thse platforms.Thank god ,i guess,for Working Designs,love or hate them.They really gave that Mega-cd thing a purpose for
existing.
Too bad they (WD) jumped ship when they smelt Sonys filthy lucre..
Cant realy comment on th Saturn;was never a huge fan of it,but big props to Capcom for
fully supporting it.
But those Panzer Dragoon Games; WOOO! Sweet.

The media definatly seemed behind the DC,backing it up.But the general public just didnt seem to give a shit.Apathy,maybe,
but damned complaceent as well.Holding out
for that import PS2 wasent so smart ,was it?

I bet they got a right reality check after playing the first batch of PS2 titles.
[img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
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Why is the dream dead?

Postby Damian on Sun Jul 01, 2001 8:33 am

Tell me one grade A and I mean grade A title Sony has produced apart from Gran Tursickmo. That is what separates the hopefuls from the Gods. To my mind Nintendo and Sega are the only ones out there, everyone else can fuck off because I am not giving them a lira.

[ 01 July 2001: Message edited by: DamianMoran ]
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Why is the dream dead?

Postby jurucyber on Sun Jul 01, 2001 7:25 pm

Cant think of any Sony in-house title worth bothering with.
All my fav psx titles were 3rd partys,and not the countless Tekken sequals either.
(How can those games keep getting succesive 9 or 10/10 marks? There not THAT different
to each other).

The only psx games i ever spent quality time with were:
Doom
Command and Conquer
Suikoden
Persona
FF7
Populcris (i forget the correct spelling)
Final Fantasy Tactics
Tactics Ogre:Ogre Battle 2
Tons of pirated stuff (heh,i wasent serious in my DC piracy rants,i was just trying to wind you lot up,but i failed)
And tons ot obscure shit ive long forgotten about.

[ 01 July 2001: Message edited by: jurucyber ]
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Why is the dream dead?

Postby Damian on Sun Jul 01, 2001 7:51 pm

RPG lover! We all know your avatar is from PSO!
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Why is the dream dead?

Postby jurucyber on Sun Jul 01, 2001 11:51 pm

Heheh.
Actually,its from PS4:End of the Millenieum.
Its of the lovely Rika,the ass kicking numan.
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Why is the dream dead?

Postby Pdaimaoh on Mon Jul 02, 2001 1:45 am

yeah! don't be confusing a character from a REAL Phantasy Star game with something from that trashola hackfest!

the PSX has the best lightgun games ever, Point Blank! and FFtactics, and Castlevania: Symphony of Metroid
those are all really kickass games

the DC is dead for several reasons
1. lack of marketing...sorry, but weird games are great, weird commercials are NOT

2. SEGA brand name...many people that know jack about gaming know sega makes great games
many people that make the industry go round (hype zombies) don't know that, and only know about older sega systems that didn't do well or something like that

3. Piracy...ya don't even need a modchip? geeez

4. Sega Brand Name...as was seen by the soon to NOT be leading 3rd party, EVERYONE BUT NINTENDO is pretty damn scared to go up against Sega...why make a half assed Sports Game on the DC when you KNOW that the grade A ONLINE sports game will be from sega, and it will blow your half assed effort out of the water? most of the companies that make a decent product also make a ton of trash that would be ignored in the face of the almighty sega

5. PSX hype...sorry but it's still the biggest seller for non portables, and that just makes the PS2 look even more appealing, not to mention some people still think that shortage means the PS2 is worth their money...ugh

6. Sega killed it...face it, they made the decision last fucking year! then lied about it for that year! after alienating everyone else, this was sega's final step in alienating anyone left stupid enough to support the DC...


and let's not forget the prevailing concept

Quality never wins over Poplularity
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Why is the dream dead?

Postby jurucyber on Mon Jul 02, 2001 1:59 am

Are you sure youre not Mr.Agreeable,from Melody Maker? :P
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Why is the dream dead?

Postby were on Mon Jul 02, 2001 7:34 am

suprised they never took an anime from the show and bring it over here...they did for everything else..:-)


about the demise of dreamcast, it was their controller...that sucker is just BAD design for one...:-( .why they enevred picked this up earlier i don't know
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Why is the dream dead?

Postby Silverhaze on Tue Jul 03, 2001 2:14 pm

Has anybody else noticed that Virgin Mega Stores have fucked off Dreamcast games all together! Not that they had a spectacular selection before anyway. Just thought I'd point that out. Like rats leaving a sinking ship.

They have recently axed another 2 of the promised titles and are also axing the online thing too. WANKERS!!!

If I ever hear sega complain about piracy then I will laugh heartely in their greasy little faces. Before farting in their general direction of course! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[ 03 July 2001: Message edited by: Silverhaze ]
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Why is the dream dead?

Postby Silverhaze on Wed Jul 04, 2001 1:30 pm

There are more factors that contributed to the demise of the DC I think. Can anybody tell me how much Shenmue cost to make? LOL I think you will be surprised but I'll post the answer anyway.

70 million!! Nope, not joking. 70 fucking million!!!! Now, where did all that money go???

PSX games I've spent time on.........hmmm.

I mostly play 2 player games with my sister so its mostly stuff like:

Crash Team Racing
Micro Machines V3
Micro Maniacs
Roll Cage
Tekken series

I've pretty much given up on the Tekken series now though since that fuckin' lame ass effort that goes by the name of Tekken Tag. Oh nice one!! Take the same old game, improve the textures, slow it down a touch more, add a shit character and release it for PS2. Rubbish, a totally lame effort there. Tekken 3 pisses over it.

There are some killer games for the PS2 though, its not quite as dry as Damian likes to believe. Anybody played Rumble Racing? Excellent game there, well made. Anybody played Red Faction? A half-life type game that absolutely rocks!! But yeah, in general I have to agree that after all that hype what the fuck has happened since???

Nothing.

Roll on Gamecube!

[ 04 July 2001: Message edited by: Silverhaze ]
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Why is the dream dead?

Postby jurucyber on Wed Jul 04, 2001 5:28 pm

The software was there,it just didnt sell.
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